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a private pilot sees nine ufos and coins

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the term

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flying saucer kind of

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that's what we're talking about today

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[Music]

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welcome to old fashioned ufos shane

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heard here

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today jason mcclellan and i are having a

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casual discussion

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about the june 1947 kenneth arnold

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sighting

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and the birth of the term flying saucer

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we'll talk more about that next just

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like a cocktail classic such as the old

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fashioned endures a test of time

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so too do the classic old-fashioned ufo

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cases

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whether it be photographic evidence the

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physical evidence

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the strength of eyewitness testimony or

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government documentation

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these cases are worthy of their classic

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status

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and deserve our attention so sit back

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with your beverage of choice and follow

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along

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as we discuss our favorite subject ufos

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how you doing today jason and what you

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drinking

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and i am good mr heard thank you for

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asking

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and you know of course i'm drinking an

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old fashioned because that's what we do

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on this show

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but i'm taking my inspiration from you

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good sir from our last episode

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and i had to go out and get some of the

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four roses single barrel

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so mine is made with four roses single

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barrel and it is delicious

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what are you drinking well i'm pretty

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lame

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tonight so i figured instead of the four

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roses

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and you know straight up i was thinking

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of a kindler gentler drink tonight so i

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was just gonna go

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bourbon and coke so i go to the fridge

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and you know i

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i get my bourbon my ice and get ready to

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pour the coke and i realized no coke

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but there's dr pepper so i'm drinking

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that classic

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bourbon and dr pepper i guess classic

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when you're a teenager and that's all

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you got

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well and dr pepper's a better choice so

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good job dude

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yeah it works what's the old saying

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liquor is quicker cheers

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all right well now that we're all

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settled in with a good drink let's talk

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ufos

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[Music]

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let me start off with the summary of the

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june 24th

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1947 kenneth arnold case

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so at around 3 p.m on june 24th

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1947 businessman and pilot

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kenneth arnold was flying his call air

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a2 airplane

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from shahalas washington to yakima

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washington

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he had made a slight detour to take a

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quick look for a downed military

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aircraft

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in the vicinity of 14 400 foot mount

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rainier

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and the flying conditions were perfect

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so he not only wanted to do his

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civic duty but there was a reward for

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its discovery so since the

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conditions were good uh he was in the

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area and he had the time

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he was actively scanning the area for

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this downed plane

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and as he was doing so he noticed a

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bright flash that

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lit up even the entire cockpit of his

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airplane

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he scanned to find out what caused that

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flash of light and he saw in the

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distance

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nine flying objects in a formation

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and then not too far distance this

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immediately caught his attention and he

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trained his eyes on these objects to

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determine what they could be

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he first thought airplanes of course but

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he noticed they were moving much faster

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than anything else he had seen fly

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and there were no wings struts vertical

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tail not even a fuselage

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and they did not look like a rocket or

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missile either

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so although he was stunned by what he

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saw he had the presence of mind

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to measure their speed by watching his

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flight clock

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timing the trajectory of these aircrafts

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between mount rainier

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and mount adams which was a known

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distance of about 50 miles

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so it took 102 seconds for them to

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travel that 50 miles

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resulting in a speed of about 1700 miles

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an hour

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which at the time was about a thousand

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miles an hour faster than

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any known aircraft of the day

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well once he landed at the airport he

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reported what he saw

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and soon his experience would become

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what today is considered

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the beginning of the modern ufo mystery

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now while this is just an extremely

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brief summary of the case there's so

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much to unpack

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uh not only about the signing itself but

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about

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um you know the reaction of the press

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the public the military all the things

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you know associated with ufos

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and as with any investigation a case

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must include witness testimony and this

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requires an estimation of the

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credibility of that witness

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so jason what do we know about the man

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himself

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kenneth arnold yeah right so from what

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we know kenneth arnold

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most definitely has the makings of a

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credible witness

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i mean first he was a successful

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businessman so successful that he owned

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his own plane obviously

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and had his own landing strip on his

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ranch in idaho

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he was a successful businessman but he

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was also reportedly respected in

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business

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second he was a pilot and pilots are

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largely considered among the most

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credible of observers when it comes to

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ufos

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because they spend a lot of time in the

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sky certainly

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more than we do and they are obviously

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more accustomed to seeing things in the

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sky than we are

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an important part of what they do in the

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sky is observe

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they have to be aware of their

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surroundings they also have specialized

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skills

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and technical knowledge so when it comes

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to calculating things like distance and

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speed

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pilots are typically better equipped

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than most people

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so when he spoke with reporters the day

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after the incident

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he came across as credible and

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reliable because the details he provided

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gave the impression that he was a

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careful observer

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and he didn't appear to exaggerate or

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sensationalize the story

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so as far as witnesses go kenneth arnold

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was largely viewed by the media

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the military and the public as credible

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and he provided a compelling account of

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what he observed

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and because we've established that he

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was a pilot here's a little fun fact

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kenneth arnold took his first flying

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lesson in minot north dakota

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he actually went to grade school in high

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school there too and minot

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is a familiar place to ufo researchers

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there have been several notable ufo

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encounters in minot and the surrounding

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areas in north dakota over the years

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including an incident in the 60s where

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ufos shut down icbms at minot air force

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base

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and just over in fargo george gorman a

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military pilot

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found himself in a dogfight of sorts

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with the ufo in 1948

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so that's a fun trivia for you yeah it

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is and

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i mean i think it's uncanny how often

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there are these little synchronicities

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between different ufo cases and

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sightings you know

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and i think that's just kind of an

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interesting one i mean sure doesn't mean

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anything per se

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other than it's just ironic that then in

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the 60s you know this happened in

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in the area that he grew up in so yeah

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that is a fun fact

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it is and it's fun you know the more you

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dig into ufos

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and the history you'll find all sorts of

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connections like this

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it's fun yeah

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well i think what's interesting too

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about you know the case

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obviously the the ufos themselves i mean

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that's incredibly interesting but

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i'm i'm one of those guys i like the

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political science of ufology and

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you know the reactions of people i

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always say ufos is really about

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people not not just about the craft or

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whatever

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certainly and um i think the press

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reaction is one of the things that

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interested me in it and you can see how

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we can look back on history and just see

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how this thing is just kind of unfolded

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um the press reaction to kenneth

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arnold's report is really

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was astonishing because the entire

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nation in fact even other nations went

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wild for the story

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the first interview was by a guy named

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bill beckett and is a reporter for the

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east

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oregonian in pellington oregon it was

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only a five minute interview

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since the paper was about to go to press

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for the day

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uh bill interviewed kenneth in this

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little tiny office and he got a few

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facts and

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and he rushed a small story that was

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kind of at the bottom of the front page

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of kenneth's account

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and then he also put a quick little

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small story on the newswire

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yeah which turned out to be the match

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that lit the fire

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a request for more information came from

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across the country

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canada and even other nations and you'd

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have to say that story was kind of the

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equivalent of going

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viral today you know in that day so

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um bill conducted then additional

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interviews with arnold of several hours

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in which more information and details

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were recounted

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and the stories picked up by many media

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outlets including

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major national newspapers and magazines

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which were real popular in the day

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and um overnight kenneth arnold and his

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nine flying objects became one of the

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biggest

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stories of the day yeah probably not

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something he expected

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and certainly not it's probably not

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something he uh thought would ever

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become associated with him or his name

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but you're right

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i mean almost seemingly overnight um

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this story spread and kind of think back

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to

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when this happened a time before social

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media

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um a time really before television so

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you know newspapers

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were breaking this story and really kind

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00:10:07,269 --> 00:10:04,480
of set off that

288
00:10:09,030 --> 00:10:07,279
uh that nice flying saucer wave that was

289
00:10:10,389 --> 00:10:09,040
uh was taking place at that time across

290
00:10:12,470 --> 00:10:10,399
the country

291
00:10:14,630 --> 00:10:12,480
yeah what was the one before it just a

292
00:10:17,829 --> 00:10:14,640
couple days in washington also

293
00:10:19,829 --> 00:10:17,839
um maury island yeah and then you know

294
00:10:21,590 --> 00:10:19,839
kenneth arnold and then

295
00:10:23,190 --> 00:10:21,600
one that we're going to talk about next

296
00:10:25,910 --> 00:10:23,200
week and then of course

297
00:10:27,430 --> 00:10:25,920
the big e roswell so man that would have

298
00:10:30,470 --> 00:10:27,440
been an exciting time to be

299
00:10:33,110 --> 00:10:30,480
you know alive and kind of connected to

300
00:10:35,030 --> 00:10:33,120
to ufos that was that was big exciting

301
00:10:37,509 --> 00:10:35,040
yes one of the most interestingly

302
00:10:39,190 --> 00:10:37,519
kind of terrifying too right because it

303
00:10:42,310 --> 00:10:39,200
was a new thing

304
00:10:42,870 --> 00:10:42,320
and people didn't know what to make of

305
00:10:45,110 --> 00:10:42,880
it and

306
00:10:46,230 --> 00:10:45,120
news traveled slower than it does now

307
00:10:49,190 --> 00:10:46,240
you don't have the

308
00:10:49,990 --> 00:10:49,200
the instant news of twitter you don't

309
00:10:52,150 --> 00:10:50,000
have the

310
00:10:54,230 --> 00:10:52,160
ability to look up stories or

311
00:10:56,550 --> 00:10:54,240
information on the internet

312
00:10:57,269 --> 00:10:56,560
so you know you're just relying on the

313
00:10:59,110 --> 00:10:57,279
newspaper

314
00:11:00,949 --> 00:10:59,120
so you wait wait for tomorrow's

315
00:11:02,949 --> 00:11:00,959
newspaper to find out

316
00:11:04,150 --> 00:11:02,959
if anybody had any new answers about the

317
00:11:06,150 --> 00:11:04,160
ufos

318
00:11:07,910 --> 00:11:06,160
and you know of course we'll talk about

319
00:11:09,350 --> 00:11:07,920
in in later episodes and certainly when

320
00:11:11,110 --> 00:11:09,360
we get to roswell and

321
00:11:12,630 --> 00:11:11,120
the pressure that all of this put on the

322
00:11:15,269 --> 00:11:12,640
military and the government

323
00:11:16,790 --> 00:11:15,279
to come up with answers because people

324
00:11:18,550 --> 00:11:16,800
didn't know what to think they just were

325
00:11:21,509 --> 00:11:18,560
reading about these ufo sightings that

326
00:11:24,630 --> 00:11:23,750
yeah in fact at the time they really

327
00:11:26,870 --> 00:11:24,640
didn't even have

328
00:11:28,550 --> 00:11:26,880
a proper name for it i mean it was that

329
00:11:29,110 --> 00:11:28,560
new they didn't know what to even call

330
00:11:30,630 --> 00:11:29,120
it and

331
00:11:33,190 --> 00:11:30,640
i think one of the most interesting

332
00:11:36,389 --> 00:11:33,200
aspects of the kenneth arnold

333
00:11:37,110 --> 00:11:36,399
sighting is it's generally accepted as

334
00:11:41,269 --> 00:11:37,120
the case

335
00:11:43,910 --> 00:11:41,279
that the term flying saucer was coined

336
00:11:45,590 --> 00:11:43,920
and just you know explain to us how that

337
00:11:48,310 --> 00:11:45,600
happened because it's kind of a

338
00:11:51,990 --> 00:11:48,320
it's it's a convoluted mess but we know

339
00:11:55,190 --> 00:11:52,000
that is the point that it happened

340
00:11:56,949 --> 00:11:55,200
it really is a bit convoluted um

341
00:11:58,949 --> 00:11:56,959
so some people incorrectly credit

342
00:12:01,190 --> 00:11:58,959
kenneth arnold himself as the originator

343
00:12:03,750 --> 00:12:01,200
of the term flying saucer

344
00:12:04,949 --> 00:12:03,760
and many people also incorrectly credit

345
00:12:06,389 --> 00:12:04,959
the reporter

346
00:12:08,949 --> 00:12:06,399
bill beckett from the east oregonian

347
00:12:11,350 --> 00:12:08,959
newspaper as the one who coined the term

348
00:12:13,030 --> 00:12:11,360
but when you look back at the stories

349
00:12:14,470 --> 00:12:13,040
none of bill's stories actually contain

350
00:12:16,629 --> 00:12:14,480
that term

351
00:12:18,550 --> 00:12:16,639
it wasn't really until the story was

352
00:12:21,750 --> 00:12:18,560
picked up by the associated press

353
00:12:25,190 --> 00:12:21,760
that the term flying disc was introduced

354
00:12:25,990 --> 00:12:25,200
then finally um june 30th i believe

355
00:12:29,269 --> 00:12:26,000
another ap

356
00:12:31,430 --> 00:12:29,279
story added flying saucer

357
00:12:33,750 --> 00:12:31,440
so just to clarify kenneth arnold never

358
00:12:34,710 --> 00:12:33,760
said he saw flying saucers or flying

359
00:12:36,949 --> 00:12:34,720
discs

360
00:12:38,150 --> 00:12:36,959
what he did do was describe the motion

361
00:12:40,470 --> 00:12:38,160
and behavior

362
00:12:41,590 --> 00:12:40,480
of the aerial objects he observed he

363
00:12:43,509 --> 00:12:41,600
actually described the

364
00:12:44,949 --> 00:12:43,519
the movement of objects many different

365
00:12:47,910 --> 00:12:44,959
ways over the years

366
00:12:48,550 --> 00:12:47,920
from they flew erratic like a saucer you

367
00:12:51,990 --> 00:12:48,560
skip across

368
00:12:54,949 --> 00:12:52,000
water to shiny flat objects with

369
00:12:56,470 --> 00:12:54,959
a peculiar weaving motion and the way he

370
00:12:59,509 --> 00:12:56,480
described this weaving motion

371
00:13:00,310 --> 00:12:59,519
is fun too like the tail of a chinese

372
00:13:03,990 --> 00:13:00,320
kite

373
00:13:06,470 --> 00:13:04,000
or even a flesh fish flipping in the sun

374
00:13:07,269 --> 00:13:06,480
he was very good with descriptive terms

375
00:13:09,430 --> 00:13:07,279
to uh

376
00:13:10,550 --> 00:13:09,440
you know help people visualize what he

377
00:13:12,389 --> 00:13:10,560
had seen

378
00:13:14,230 --> 00:13:12,399
and adding to the description of the

379
00:13:16,550 --> 00:13:14,240
behavior of these ufos

380
00:13:18,710 --> 00:13:16,560
arnold described that the objects were

381
00:13:20,550 --> 00:13:18,720
grouped together in a diagonally stepped

382
00:13:23,110 --> 00:13:20,560
down echelon formation

383
00:13:24,310 --> 00:13:23,120
stretched over a distance of five miles

384
00:13:26,550 --> 00:13:24,320
and he said they were

385
00:13:27,509 --> 00:13:26,560
moving mostly on a level horizontal

386
00:13:29,509 --> 00:13:27,519
plane

387
00:13:30,550 --> 00:13:29,519
and the ufos weed from side to side

388
00:13:32,310 --> 00:13:30,560
darting

389
00:13:33,990 --> 00:13:32,320
through the valleys and in between

390
00:13:36,389 --> 00:13:34,000
nearby hills and they would

391
00:13:37,110 --> 00:13:36,399
also occasionally sort of bank on their

392
00:13:40,230 --> 00:13:37,120
sides

393
00:13:42,150 --> 00:13:40,240
at the same time and causing this bright

394
00:13:43,350 --> 00:13:42,160
mirror-like flash of light that was

395
00:13:45,829 --> 00:13:43,360
blinding

396
00:13:48,230 --> 00:13:45,839
but again he never said the ufos he saw

397
00:13:51,110 --> 00:13:48,240
were saucer-shaped which is interesting

398
00:13:53,269 --> 00:13:51,120
what he did say with regard to shape was

399
00:13:53,990 --> 00:13:53,279
that he saw a series of objects with

400
00:13:56,550 --> 00:13:54,000
convex

401
00:13:57,750 --> 00:13:56,560
shapes he said one might have been uh

402
00:13:59,829 --> 00:13:57,760
crescent-shaped

403
00:14:01,590 --> 00:13:59,839
but his best description said they

404
00:14:01,990 --> 00:14:01,600
looked something like a pie plate that

405
00:14:04,949 --> 00:14:02,000
was cut

406
00:14:05,990 --> 00:14:04,959
in half with a convex triangle in the

407
00:14:07,430 --> 00:14:06,000
rear

408
00:14:09,590 --> 00:14:07,440
i think there was even at least one

409
00:14:12,790 --> 00:14:09,600
story about this incident

410
00:14:15,350 --> 00:14:12,800
that referred to the object as flying

411
00:14:17,509 --> 00:14:15,360
pipe hands that's my favorite

412
00:14:19,030 --> 00:14:17,519
if you've ever seen a drawing of what

413
00:14:20,870 --> 00:14:19,040
arnold said you saw

414
00:14:23,590 --> 00:14:20,880
these things look more like birds than

415
00:14:26,069 --> 00:14:23,600
they do a typical flying saucer

416
00:14:27,269 --> 00:14:26,079
but of course birds don't fly at 1200

417
00:14:31,110 --> 00:14:27,279
miles per hour

418
00:14:34,310 --> 00:14:31,120
typically and arnold noted that despite

419
00:14:35,269 --> 00:14:34,320
this supersonic speed there was no sonic

420
00:14:37,590 --> 00:14:35,279
boom

421
00:14:39,189 --> 00:14:37,600
and you know he found that detail

422
00:14:41,829 --> 00:14:39,199
particularly curious

423
00:14:44,629 --> 00:14:41,839
it made no sense to him that objects

424
00:14:46,069 --> 00:14:44,639
moving significantly faster than the 750

425
00:14:48,870 --> 00:14:46,079
mile per hour sound barrier

426
00:14:50,550 --> 00:14:48,880
didn't generate a sonic boom he figured

427
00:14:52,949 --> 00:14:50,560
he must be seeing some sort of secret

428
00:14:56,470 --> 00:14:52,959
military aircraft being tested

429
00:14:58,550 --> 00:14:56,480
using some advanced technology

430
00:15:00,230 --> 00:14:58,560
yeah i mean wow i mean that that's

431
00:15:03,590 --> 00:15:00,240
actually a lot of detail

432
00:15:05,990 --> 00:15:03,600
um and you know interviewing witnesses

433
00:15:07,590 --> 00:15:06,000
that's um you know that's a good sign

434
00:15:09,189 --> 00:15:07,600
that you know people

435
00:15:11,030 --> 00:15:09,199
you know were good observers and they

436
00:15:12,790 --> 00:15:11,040
had an actual experience and

437
00:15:14,470 --> 00:15:12,800
and the fact that he used these little

438
00:15:16,870 --> 00:15:14,480
illustrate kind of folksy

439
00:15:17,590 --> 00:15:16,880
illustrations about their behavior in

440
00:15:19,829 --> 00:15:17,600
motion and

441
00:15:21,430 --> 00:15:19,839
i mean again you think about the time

442
00:15:24,550 --> 00:15:21,440
right and people

443
00:15:28,230 --> 00:15:24,560
you know didn't have a lot of high-tech

444
00:15:30,389 --> 00:15:28,240
uh examples to to go to

445
00:15:31,990 --> 00:15:30,399
it was you know more of those those

446
00:15:34,710 --> 00:15:32,000
folksy kind of things but

447
00:15:35,110 --> 00:15:34,720
you know it's it's great information and

448
00:15:38,150 --> 00:15:35,120
then

449
00:15:40,550 --> 00:15:38,160
um yeah i always even think i i'm

450
00:15:42,389 --> 00:15:40,560
imagining in my mind that photo of him

451
00:15:43,590 --> 00:15:42,399
staying there in front of a placard of

452
00:15:45,509 --> 00:15:43,600
some sort where he's

453
00:15:47,430 --> 00:15:45,519
made a pretty nice illustration of them

454
00:15:48,069 --> 00:15:47,440
and to me it almost looks like one of

455
00:15:51,990 --> 00:15:48,079
the bat

456
00:15:53,749 --> 00:15:52,000
movies yeah this is

457
00:15:55,030 --> 00:15:53,759
this park and then yeah that's you know

458
00:15:56,470 --> 00:15:55,040
that's certainly more a better

459
00:15:57,350 --> 00:15:56,480
description and something we would use

460
00:16:00,470 --> 00:15:57,360
today

461
00:16:02,870 --> 00:16:00,480
uh you know to describe it um

462
00:16:03,670 --> 00:16:02,880
imagine if imagine if flying pie pans

463
00:16:06,389 --> 00:16:03,680
had caught down

464
00:16:07,829 --> 00:16:06,399
instead of flying saucer i mean that

465
00:16:08,310 --> 00:16:07,839
would be pretty funny i can't imagine

466
00:16:10,629 --> 00:16:08,320
that we

467
00:16:13,269 --> 00:16:10,639
are so accustomed to flying saucer now

468
00:16:16,470 --> 00:16:13,279
but it could have been flying pie pan

469
00:16:16,790 --> 00:16:16,480
yeah oh yeah that that's hilarious but i

470
00:16:19,829 --> 00:16:16,800
mean

471
00:16:22,230 --> 00:16:19,839
really no no no more hilarious than

472
00:16:23,829 --> 00:16:22,240
saucer but we're just used to it

473
00:16:25,590 --> 00:16:23,839
we're just used to it exactly it's a

474
00:16:27,350 --> 00:16:25,600
stupid term it's really stupid but i

475
00:16:29,670 --> 00:16:27,360
love it i mean and we're used to it

476
00:16:30,949 --> 00:16:29,680
we've grown up with it uh we're used to

477
00:16:32,629 --> 00:16:30,959
it but you know

478
00:16:35,590 --> 00:16:32,639
like i said he thought this was secret

479
00:16:38,710 --> 00:16:35,600
military technology or something

480
00:16:40,870 --> 00:16:38,720
and this is a startling sighting that

481
00:16:42,710 --> 00:16:40,880
was reported by a credible witness that

482
00:16:43,829 --> 00:16:42,720
was deemed to be credible and of course

483
00:16:44,710 --> 00:16:43,839
this all caught the attention of the

484
00:16:45,990 --> 00:16:44,720
military

485
00:16:50,310 --> 00:16:46,000
so do you want to talk a little bit

486
00:16:52,310 --> 00:16:50,320
about that uh military attention shane

487
00:16:54,069 --> 00:16:52,320
yeah yeah i think that's incredibly

488
00:16:55,269 --> 00:16:54,079
interesting too this is really kind of

489
00:16:58,870 --> 00:16:55,279
the start of it all

490
00:17:01,590 --> 00:16:58,880
our modern ufo era and how how the

491
00:17:01,990 --> 00:17:01,600
you know military is was reacting and

492
00:17:04,549 --> 00:17:02,000
and

493
00:17:05,750 --> 00:17:04,559
we have to kind of have our head in the

494
00:17:09,189 --> 00:17:05,760
space that they

495
00:17:11,110 --> 00:17:09,199
they this was new to them too apparently

496
00:17:12,710 --> 00:17:11,120
and uh it's kind of interesting to see

497
00:17:15,429 --> 00:17:12,720
their reaction and i think it's a

498
00:17:18,470 --> 00:17:15,439
fascinating look into the development

499
00:17:19,429 --> 00:17:18,480
of of their responses to ufos starting

500
00:17:21,669 --> 00:17:19,439
at that time

501
00:17:24,230 --> 00:17:21,679
and we know there was project sign that

502
00:17:24,870 --> 00:17:24,240
that started right out of the gate 1947

503
00:17:26,710 --> 00:17:24,880
there

504
00:17:29,270 --> 00:17:26,720
uh then project grudge and then

505
00:17:31,909 --> 00:17:29,280
eventually uh project blue book where it

506
00:17:33,669 --> 00:17:31,919
outlines really the evolution of the

507
00:17:36,230 --> 00:17:33,679
government's response

508
00:17:37,190 --> 00:17:36,240
um to reports such as kenneth arnold so

509
00:17:40,070 --> 00:17:37,200
it went from

510
00:17:41,590 --> 00:17:40,080
sign to grudge and then blue book you

511
00:17:44,390 --> 00:17:41,600
know it just kind of

512
00:17:45,830 --> 00:17:44,400
they have a different tone to them and

513
00:17:47,029 --> 00:17:45,840
you can kind of see their thinking

514
00:17:49,990 --> 00:17:47,039
change but

515
00:17:51,830 --> 00:17:50,000
um there's a really great book written

516
00:17:54,470 --> 00:17:51,840
uh written by bruce mcabee

517
00:17:55,669 --> 00:17:54,480
and it's called uh three minutes in june

518
00:17:59,270 --> 00:17:55,679
referring to the

519
00:18:01,190 --> 00:17:59,280
this case and on pages 58 and 59 i'd

520
00:18:03,830 --> 00:18:01,200
like to just kind of read from it

521
00:18:04,470 --> 00:18:03,840
uh and he summarizes their response

522
00:18:08,230 --> 00:18:04,480
which

523
00:18:10,870 --> 00:18:08,240
to me is just a great summary of how the

524
00:18:11,909 --> 00:18:10,880
the air force had developed their their

525
00:18:15,110 --> 00:18:11,919
new policy

526
00:18:17,669 --> 00:18:15,120
really to to react into ufos so on page

527
00:18:19,830 --> 00:18:17,679
58 it says um

528
00:18:21,270 --> 00:18:19,840
the air force intelligence established

529
00:18:23,830 --> 00:18:21,280
project sign

530
00:18:25,549 --> 00:18:23,840
and secretly investigated the saucer

531
00:18:27,110 --> 00:18:25,559
reports that started in the summer of

532
00:18:30,230 --> 00:18:27,120
1947

533
00:18:32,870 --> 00:18:30,240
and continued through the summer of 1948

534
00:18:34,070 --> 00:18:32,880
the technical intelligence analyst of

535
00:18:36,310 --> 00:18:34,080
project sign

536
00:18:38,310 --> 00:18:36,320
treated all of the sightings including

537
00:18:41,029 --> 00:18:38,320
arnold seriously

538
00:18:42,950 --> 00:18:41,039
this was at least in part a result of

539
00:18:43,590 --> 00:18:42,960
the fact that a number of air force

540
00:18:46,310 --> 00:18:43,600
pilots

541
00:18:47,909 --> 00:18:46,320
also reported seeing flying saucers and

542
00:18:49,750 --> 00:18:47,919
i didn't really know that

543
00:18:51,510 --> 00:18:49,760
arnold's siding was included as

544
00:18:53,510 --> 00:18:51,520
unexplained in the top secret

545
00:18:55,830 --> 00:18:53,520
intelligence memorandum

546
00:18:57,590 --> 00:18:55,840
compiled by air force intelligence at

547
00:19:01,630 --> 00:18:57,600
the pentagon during the fall

548
00:19:03,190 --> 00:19:01,640
of 1948 however in the early fall of

549
00:19:05,750 --> 00:19:03,200
1948

550
00:19:06,710 --> 00:19:05,760
general hoyt vandenberg chief of staff

551
00:19:09,510 --> 00:19:06,720
of the air force

552
00:19:10,150 --> 00:19:09,520
rejected the conclusion arrived at by

553
00:19:13,029 --> 00:19:10,160
technical

554
00:19:13,669 --> 00:19:13,039
intelligence analysts at right field

555
00:19:16,549 --> 00:19:13,679
which was

556
00:19:18,310 --> 00:19:16,559
is now wright patterson air force base

557
00:19:19,669 --> 00:19:18,320
they had written a secret document

558
00:19:22,710 --> 00:19:19,679
called

559
00:19:25,070 --> 00:19:22,720
the estimate of the situation wherein

560
00:19:28,070 --> 00:19:25,080
they estimated that the saucers were

561
00:19:29,590 --> 00:19:28,080
interplanetary vehicles the analysts who

562
00:19:32,549 --> 00:19:29,600
were the knowledge

563
00:19:33,750 --> 00:19:32,559
experts in analyzing foreign aerodynamic

564
00:19:35,909 --> 00:19:33,760
vehicles

565
00:19:37,590 --> 00:19:35,919
then visited the general to argue their

566
00:19:41,110 --> 00:19:37,600
case but he told them

567
00:19:43,510 --> 00:19:41,120
something like this sorry wrong answer

568
00:19:44,470 --> 00:19:43,520
by rejecting the estimate in spite of

569
00:19:47,669 --> 00:19:44,480
the evidence

570
00:19:49,510 --> 00:19:47,679
vandenberg effectively established an

571
00:19:52,310 --> 00:19:49,520
air force policy

572
00:19:53,990 --> 00:19:52,320
that the interplanetary hypothesis was

573
00:19:58,789 --> 00:19:54,000
not to be considered as an

574
00:20:02,230 --> 00:19:58,799
acceptable explanation for any sighting

575
00:20:04,470 --> 00:20:02,240
other alternative they considered was

576
00:20:06,310 --> 00:20:04,480
that the russians had made immense

577
00:20:08,710 --> 00:20:06,320
improvements on german aircraft

578
00:20:09,590 --> 00:20:08,720
developed during world war ii and were

579
00:20:12,310 --> 00:20:09,600
flying their new

580
00:20:14,070 --> 00:20:12,320
aircraft over the united states however

581
00:20:15,029 --> 00:20:14,080
intelligence analysts didn't believe

582
00:20:16,630 --> 00:20:15,039
this either

583
00:20:19,110 --> 00:20:16,640
therefore they were forced to come up

584
00:20:22,470 --> 00:20:19,120
with some conventional explanation for

585
00:20:25,750 --> 00:20:22,480
each siding even if there was no logical

586
00:20:26,549 --> 00:20:25,760
conventional explanation this urge to

587
00:20:29,909 --> 00:20:26,559
explain

588
00:20:31,990 --> 00:20:29,919
biased deciding analyses done during the

589
00:20:35,350 --> 00:20:32,000
projects that followed sign

590
00:20:37,750 --> 00:20:35,360
namely grudge and and blue book

591
00:20:38,950 --> 00:20:37,760
so i think that's just powerful i mean

592
00:20:41,270 --> 00:20:38,960
that that summary

593
00:20:43,590 --> 00:20:41,280
is great and it really does show how

594
00:20:45,990 --> 00:20:43,600
that thinking was established so

595
00:20:47,750 --> 00:20:46,000
i know we all kind of in ufology we

596
00:20:51,270 --> 00:20:47,760
think about the 1953

597
00:20:54,870 --> 00:20:51,280
robertson panel and kind of their their

598
00:20:56,870 --> 00:20:54,880
strategy to poo poo um ufo reports in

599
00:20:57,830 --> 00:20:56,880
the public by you know ridicule and so

600
00:21:01,350 --> 00:20:57,840
forth but really

601
00:21:04,390 --> 00:21:01,360
it had already begun uh in the air force

602
00:21:06,390 --> 00:21:04,400
reaction to explain this stuff away

603
00:21:09,110 --> 00:21:06,400
which is really sad i think i think it's

604
00:21:11,909 --> 00:21:09,120
just terribly sad because imagine

605
00:21:13,909 --> 00:21:11,919
had it been taken serious then how much

606
00:21:17,990 --> 00:21:13,919
further we might be along today

607
00:21:21,350 --> 00:21:18,000
in understanding this phenomenon

608
00:21:21,990 --> 00:21:21,360
now the first investigation of arnold's

609
00:21:23,909 --> 00:21:22,000
claims

610
00:21:25,270 --> 00:21:23,919
came actually from the air force

611
00:21:27,909 --> 00:21:25,280
lieutenant frank brown

612
00:21:30,149 --> 00:21:27,919
and captain william davidson of the

613
00:21:31,990 --> 00:21:30,159
hamilton field in california

614
00:21:33,590 --> 00:21:32,000
and they had interviewed him on july

615
00:21:35,110 --> 00:21:33,600
12th and this is what they said about

616
00:21:35,909 --> 00:21:35,120
him going back to what you're saying

617
00:21:38,710 --> 00:21:35,919
about his

618
00:21:40,710 --> 00:21:38,720
credibility it is the present opinion of

619
00:21:43,510 --> 00:21:40,720
the interviewer that mr arnold

620
00:21:44,070 --> 00:21:43,520
actually saw what he stated he saw it's

621
00:21:46,149 --> 00:21:44,080
difficult

622
00:21:47,669 --> 00:21:46,159
to believe the man of his character and

623
00:21:49,510 --> 00:21:47,679
apparent integrity

624
00:21:51,669 --> 00:21:49,520
would state that he saw objects and

625
00:21:55,270 --> 00:21:51,679
write up a report to the extent

626
00:21:59,110 --> 00:21:55,280
that he did if he did not see them

627
00:22:00,870 --> 00:21:59,120
well despite that the army air force's

628
00:22:04,149 --> 00:22:00,880
formal public conclusion

629
00:22:07,669 --> 00:22:04,159
was that arnold had seen get this

630
00:22:09,990 --> 00:22:07,679
a mirage a mirage

631
00:22:11,590 --> 00:22:10,000
so this was a first investigated by the

632
00:22:12,950 --> 00:22:11,600
army air corps since the air force

633
00:22:15,510 --> 00:22:12,960
hadn't been created

634
00:22:17,590 --> 00:22:15,520
and it was later investigated again by

635
00:22:20,870 --> 00:22:17,600
project blue book and dr

636
00:22:22,149 --> 00:22:20,880
j allen heineck and so you can already

637
00:22:24,310 --> 00:22:22,159
see the information

638
00:22:26,549 --> 00:22:24,320
or the formation rather of the strategy

639
00:22:29,590 --> 00:22:26,559
to dismiss these cases and

640
00:22:31,830 --> 00:22:29,600
it is too bad and you know

641
00:22:33,270 --> 00:22:31,840
we have all of these great cases over

642
00:22:35,750 --> 00:22:33,280
the last 70 years and

643
00:22:36,390 --> 00:22:35,760
and great evidence and a lot of this was

644
00:22:38,789 --> 00:22:36,400
just

645
00:22:39,510 --> 00:22:38,799
either hoarded or ignored or whatever

646
00:22:43,190 --> 00:22:39,520
and it's just

647
00:22:45,190 --> 00:22:43,200
so sad it is sad

648
00:22:48,549 --> 00:22:45,200
and you know this is something we think

649
00:22:50,950 --> 00:22:48,559
about a lot you know because of

650
00:22:52,710 --> 00:22:50,960
the military's various efforts and their

651
00:22:55,990 --> 00:22:52,720
various policies

652
00:22:58,710 --> 00:22:56,000
um and in the government in general

653
00:23:00,149 --> 00:22:58,720
to to ridicule the subject especially

654
00:23:04,710 --> 00:23:00,159
around that time around the

655
00:23:07,750 --> 00:23:04,720
the mid 50s you wonder just how many

656
00:23:08,950 --> 00:23:07,760
how many sightings how many incredible

657
00:23:11,590 --> 00:23:08,960
encounters

658
00:23:13,430 --> 00:23:11,600
went unreported because who would bother

659
00:23:13,830 --> 00:23:13,440
to report a ufo sighting during that

660
00:23:16,070 --> 00:23:13,840
time

661
00:23:17,909 --> 00:23:16,080
when all these active efforts were

662
00:23:20,310 --> 00:23:17,919
underway to ridicule

663
00:23:21,350 --> 00:23:20,320
anybody uh having anything to do with

664
00:23:24,310 --> 00:23:21,360
ufos

665
00:23:25,110 --> 00:23:24,320
so you have to imagine that there were

666
00:23:27,669 --> 00:23:25,120
so

667
00:23:28,630 --> 00:23:27,679
many incredible sightings and encounters

668
00:23:31,270 --> 00:23:28,640
during

669
00:23:31,990 --> 00:23:31,280
you know the past 40 years 50 years 60

670
00:23:37,029 --> 00:23:32,000
years

671
00:23:38,230 --> 00:23:37,039
no one knows about that have never been

672
00:23:40,390 --> 00:23:38,240
looked into

673
00:23:41,750 --> 00:23:40,400
that have never been shared with anybody

674
00:23:44,870 --> 00:23:41,760
else because

675
00:23:45,430 --> 00:23:44,880
of the ridicule factor that was put in

676
00:23:48,310 --> 00:23:45,440
place

677
00:23:48,870 --> 00:23:48,320
so hard back then um just so much lost

678
00:23:51,510 --> 00:23:48,880
data

679
00:23:51,909 --> 00:23:51,520
so much lost usefulness and like you

680
00:23:55,669 --> 00:23:51,919
said

681
00:23:57,590 --> 00:23:55,679
i mean that set us back so far i mean

682
00:23:58,710 --> 00:23:57,600
who knows if there will ever be any

683
00:24:02,149 --> 00:23:58,720
answers to

684
00:24:04,630 --> 00:24:02,159
the ufo mystery but you have to believe

685
00:24:06,230 --> 00:24:04,640
that we would certainly be farther along

686
00:24:07,269 --> 00:24:06,240
or at least have more information to

687
00:24:10,390 --> 00:24:07,279
work with

688
00:24:13,190 --> 00:24:10,400
had that not been the case yeah

689
00:24:15,269 --> 00:24:13,200
totally agree and even you know as an

690
00:24:18,310 --> 00:24:15,279
investigator now

691
00:24:20,789 --> 00:24:18,320
you know yes the the end game would be

692
00:24:22,549 --> 00:24:20,799
can we truly identify you know who this

693
00:24:25,830 --> 00:24:22,559
is and why they're doing it

694
00:24:26,789 --> 00:24:25,840
but you know that isn't all there is to

695
00:24:29,510 --> 00:24:26,799
it that the

696
00:24:31,110 --> 00:24:29,520
the data and the investigation and you

697
00:24:33,430 --> 00:24:31,120
know the knowledge and the information

698
00:24:35,110 --> 00:24:33,440
that comes from all of those cases is

699
00:24:37,430 --> 00:24:35,120
still super valuable and

700
00:24:39,750 --> 00:24:37,440
you know there's value in the journey

701
00:24:40,390 --> 00:24:39,760
not not just the destination you know

702
00:24:42,870 --> 00:24:40,400
and

703
00:24:43,669 --> 00:24:42,880
it is it's just a sad loss but you know

704
00:24:46,149 --> 00:24:43,679
i was

705
00:24:47,669 --> 00:24:46,159
really i did not know about this case

706
00:24:50,230 --> 00:24:47,679
and as we were preparing for this

707
00:24:51,430 --> 00:24:50,240
i discovered that there were other

708
00:24:53,830 --> 00:24:51,440
witnesses to this

709
00:24:54,630 --> 00:24:53,840
not just kenneth arnold what'd you find

710
00:24:56,549 --> 00:24:54,640
out about that

711
00:24:58,070 --> 00:24:56,559
yeah and that's that's so powerful right

712
00:25:00,149 --> 00:24:58,080
i mean you mentioned

713
00:25:02,310 --> 00:25:00,159
the the power of witness testimony when

714
00:25:03,110 --> 00:25:02,320
it comes to ufo cases and we just talked

715
00:25:06,230 --> 00:25:03,120
about you know

716
00:25:09,110 --> 00:25:06,240
the millions of of sightings that

717
00:25:10,230 --> 00:25:09,120
that probably have gone unreported and

718
00:25:14,310 --> 00:25:10,240
think about

719
00:25:17,110 --> 00:25:14,320
you know single witness ufo cases

720
00:25:18,470 --> 00:25:17,120
most certainly have lots of other

721
00:25:21,029 --> 00:25:18,480
witnesses as well

722
00:25:23,110 --> 00:25:21,039
that go unreported so think about the

723
00:25:25,110 --> 00:25:23,120
credibility that would be lent to cases

724
00:25:27,669 --> 00:25:25,120
if other people would report them as

725
00:25:30,310 --> 00:25:27,679
well and with the kenneth arnold case

726
00:25:31,750 --> 00:25:30,320
that is certainly what we have here i

727
00:25:32,789 --> 00:25:31,760
mean we talked about the fact that

728
00:25:36,310 --> 00:25:32,799
kenneth arnold is

729
00:25:38,870 --> 00:25:36,320
considered to be a quality witness and

730
00:25:39,430 --> 00:25:38,880
the credibility or weightiness of this

731
00:25:44,310 --> 00:25:39,440
case

732
00:25:46,630 --> 00:25:44,320
is enhanced by so much corroboration

733
00:25:48,390 --> 00:25:46,640
fred johnson a prospector who was on

734
00:25:50,870 --> 00:25:48,400
mount adams at the time

735
00:25:52,149 --> 00:25:50,880
informed the army air force that he saw

736
00:25:55,350 --> 00:25:52,159
six ufos

737
00:25:57,590 --> 00:25:55,360
at about the same time as arnold siding

738
00:25:58,390 --> 00:25:57,600
he said he even observed these ufos

739
00:26:00,390 --> 00:25:58,400
through a small

740
00:26:01,990 --> 00:26:00,400
telescope i don't know why a prospector

741
00:26:03,110 --> 00:26:02,000
needs a small telescope but that's rad

742
00:26:06,630 --> 00:26:03,120
i'm glad he had one

743
00:26:09,430 --> 00:26:06,640
that helped he described this object

744
00:26:10,149 --> 00:26:09,440
as round and tapered sharply to a point

745
00:26:12,789 --> 00:26:10,159
in the head

746
00:26:14,950 --> 00:26:12,799
and in an oval shape another interesting

747
00:26:15,669 --> 00:26:14,960
detail he provided was that the ufo

748
00:26:18,950 --> 00:26:15,679
seemingly

749
00:26:21,669 --> 00:26:18,960
affected his compass interesting so

750
00:26:24,630 --> 00:26:21,679
the army air force reportedly found this

751
00:26:25,029 --> 00:26:24,640
witness to be credible mark up another

752
00:26:28,310 --> 00:26:25,039
one

753
00:26:30,070 --> 00:26:28,320
okay so then uh lorenz bernier

754
00:26:31,510 --> 00:26:30,080
added some useful information about the

755
00:26:33,990 --> 00:26:31,520
speed of the objects

756
00:26:36,070 --> 00:26:34,000
he claimed he saw three of the ufos

757
00:26:36,870 --> 00:26:36,080
flying over richland washington toward

758
00:26:38,950 --> 00:26:36,880
mount rainier

759
00:26:40,149 --> 00:26:38,960
approximately a half hour before arnold

760
00:26:42,789 --> 00:26:40,159
siding

761
00:26:44,549 --> 00:26:42,799
and he said these three objects seem to

762
00:26:45,990 --> 00:26:44,559
be flying edge to edge

763
00:26:47,830 --> 00:26:46,000
and he assumed they were part of a

764
00:26:51,430 --> 00:26:47,840
larger formation

765
00:26:54,549 --> 00:26:51,440
he explained that he had quote seen a

766
00:26:56,470 --> 00:26:54,559
appear seemingly on one horizon and then

767
00:26:57,269 --> 00:26:56,480
gone to the opposite horizon in no time

768
00:26:59,430 --> 00:26:57,279
at all

769
00:27:01,669 --> 00:26:59,440
but these discs certainly were traveling

770
00:27:04,149 --> 00:27:01,679
faster than any p-38

771
00:27:05,909 --> 00:27:04,159
end quote and just for reference the max

772
00:27:08,950 --> 00:27:05,919
speed of a p-38 was reportedly

773
00:27:10,950 --> 00:27:08,960
approximately 440 miles per hour

774
00:27:12,310 --> 00:27:10,960
another witness ethel wheelhouse

775
00:27:15,190 --> 00:27:12,320
reported that she saw

776
00:27:16,470 --> 00:27:15,200
several extremely fast flying discs over

777
00:27:19,029 --> 00:27:16,480
yakima washington

778
00:27:21,269 --> 00:27:19,039
around the same time as arnold siding

779
00:27:23,350 --> 00:27:21,279
yakima is approximately 60 miles to the

780
00:27:24,950 --> 00:27:23,360
northwest of richland

781
00:27:28,389 --> 00:27:24,960
sydney gallagher is a witness who

782
00:27:30,070 --> 00:27:28,399
reported seeing nine shiny disks

783
00:27:31,990 --> 00:27:30,080
a forest ranger with the washington

784
00:27:33,590 --> 00:27:32,000
state forest service who was on fire

785
00:27:36,070 --> 00:27:33,600
watch at a tower and diamond gap

786
00:27:37,029 --> 00:27:36,080
approximately 20 miles south of yakima

787
00:27:39,750 --> 00:27:37,039
reported seeing

788
00:27:41,830 --> 00:27:39,760
flashes of light in a straight line over

789
00:27:43,430 --> 00:27:41,840
mount rainier at the same time of

790
00:27:46,149 --> 00:27:43,440
arnold's sighting

791
00:27:47,830 --> 00:27:46,159
there were at least 16 other reported

792
00:27:49,750 --> 00:27:47,840
ufo sightings in washington state on the

793
00:27:52,789 --> 00:27:49,760
day of kenneth arnold sighting

794
00:27:53,590 --> 00:27:52,799
so 16 different people from 16 different

795
00:27:56,230 --> 00:27:53,600
positions

796
00:27:58,149 --> 00:27:56,240
saw the same mirage isn't that magic

797
00:28:02,149 --> 00:27:58,159
that's a magic mirage right

798
00:28:03,990 --> 00:28:02,159
i mean give me a break so i appreciate

799
00:28:05,510 --> 00:28:04,000
bruce mcabee's thoughts on why he would

800
00:28:06,870 --> 00:28:05,520
go back to an old-fashioned case like

801
00:28:08,950 --> 00:28:06,880
this to reinvestigate

802
00:28:10,310 --> 00:28:08,960
when we've had so many other cases since

803
00:28:12,070 --> 00:28:10,320
then but first

804
00:28:13,909 --> 00:28:12,080
he thought that even with the study of

805
00:28:15,430 --> 00:28:13,919
cases in the 50 years since arnold

806
00:28:16,149 --> 00:28:15,440
sighting we're no closer to finding

807
00:28:18,230 --> 00:28:16,159
answers

808
00:28:19,990 --> 00:28:18,240
so maybe there is something missed by

809
00:28:21,510 --> 00:28:20,000
the original investigators that we might

810
00:28:23,110 --> 00:28:21,520
be able to resolve with new technology

811
00:28:26,389 --> 00:28:23,120
and more experience

812
00:28:27,269 --> 00:28:26,399
second he feels the case arnold in

813
00:28:30,070 --> 00:28:27,279
particular

814
00:28:31,350 --> 00:28:30,080
has five strong attributes witness

815
00:28:33,750 --> 00:28:31,360
credibility

816
00:28:36,149 --> 00:28:33,760
arnold was in the exact right place he

817
00:28:38,310 --> 00:28:36,159
was there the exact right time

818
00:28:40,549 --> 00:28:38,320
he had the right attitude and skills and

819
00:28:42,389 --> 00:28:40,559
he was alert and inquisitive

820
00:28:44,310 --> 00:28:42,399
history does seem to show that arnold

821
00:28:47,830 --> 00:28:44,320
was indeed the right person

822
00:28:50,870 --> 00:28:47,840
in the right place at the right time

823
00:28:53,990 --> 00:28:50,880
wow that's stunning i had no idea 16

824
00:28:55,750 --> 00:28:54,000
different witnesses wow

825
00:28:57,830 --> 00:28:55,760
you don't hear that reported much you

826
00:28:59,029 --> 00:28:57,840
kind of got to dig deep to find that

827
00:29:01,830 --> 00:28:59,039
that's amazing

828
00:29:03,510 --> 00:29:01,840
you know i grew up not grew up entirely

829
00:29:05,190 --> 00:29:03,520
but spent four or five years

830
00:29:06,710 --> 00:29:05,200
when i was a little kid in pasco

831
00:29:10,070 --> 00:29:06,720
washington and

832
00:29:11,669 --> 00:29:10,080
um uh i was maybe four or

833
00:29:13,350 --> 00:29:11,679
three four or five something i have

834
00:29:16,070 --> 00:29:13,360
those are among my earliest

835
00:29:16,789 --> 00:29:16,080
memories as a little kid and there the

836
00:29:18,710 --> 00:29:16,799
columbia

837
00:29:20,950 --> 00:29:18,720
river runs right through it and then of

838
00:29:22,149 --> 00:29:20,960
course what's there and what's kind of a

839
00:29:25,190 --> 00:29:22,159
big deal

840
00:29:27,909 --> 00:29:25,200
is the hanford nuclear power plant

841
00:29:29,510 --> 00:29:27,919
and the hanford plant is the plant that

842
00:29:32,789 --> 00:29:29,520
processed the

843
00:29:35,830 --> 00:29:32,799
plutonium for the original a-bomb

844
00:29:37,669 --> 00:29:35,840
uh in 1945 and uh

845
00:29:39,669 --> 00:29:37,679
i even remember my dad was a truck

846
00:29:43,669 --> 00:29:39,679
driver and he would take me

847
00:29:47,029 --> 00:29:43,679
with him and he was hauling uranium

848
00:29:47,350 --> 00:29:47,039
in a mine from a mine uh from one place

849
00:29:51,029 --> 00:29:47,360
to

850
00:29:52,630 --> 00:29:51,039
him so

851
00:29:54,470 --> 00:29:52,640
and then again just talk about that

852
00:29:55,909 --> 00:29:54,480
little bit of weird weirdness and

853
00:29:57,830 --> 00:29:55,919
synchronicity

854
00:29:59,510 --> 00:29:57,840
you know we're talking a nuclear

855
00:30:02,870 --> 00:29:59,520
facility

856
00:30:05,029 --> 00:30:02,880
again technically associated with ufos

857
00:30:06,549 --> 00:30:05,039
i mean i just those connections just

858
00:30:08,789 --> 00:30:06,559
blow me away so

859
00:30:10,789 --> 00:30:08,799
man that that is some interesting stuff

860
00:30:14,230 --> 00:30:10,799
jason thanks for that

861
00:30:17,110 --> 00:30:14,240
yeah very cool very cool

862
00:30:19,510 --> 00:30:17,120
i yeah i think this is just a awesome

863
00:30:21,350 --> 00:30:19,520
case i mean it's a real gem of a classic

864
00:30:22,789 --> 00:30:21,360
case uh it's got so much good

865
00:30:25,510 --> 00:30:22,799
information

866
00:30:26,870 --> 00:30:25,520
and you know we've got two of the three

867
00:30:29,269 --> 00:30:26,880
fundamental

868
00:30:31,190 --> 00:30:29,279
uh pillars of an investigation you have

869
00:30:33,430 --> 00:30:31,200
you know eyewetness testing

870
00:30:35,110 --> 00:30:33,440
testimony you hope to get physical

871
00:30:37,750 --> 00:30:35,120
evidence which we don't necessarily have

872
00:30:39,830 --> 00:30:37,760
here but corroborative evidence and

873
00:30:42,310 --> 00:30:39,840
you know that's that's almost a mass

874
00:30:44,470 --> 00:30:42,320
sighting when you think about it 16

875
00:30:45,830 --> 00:30:44,480
disparate witnesses people that didn't

876
00:30:46,870 --> 00:30:45,840
know each other were in different

877
00:30:49,350 --> 00:30:46,880
locations i mean

878
00:30:50,470 --> 00:30:49,360
wow that blows me away i think that's

879
00:30:54,230 --> 00:30:50,480
pretty powerful

880
00:30:55,909 --> 00:30:54,240
uh evidence and um

881
00:30:57,269 --> 00:30:55,919
but once the information of arnold

882
00:31:00,310 --> 00:30:57,279
siding became public

883
00:31:02,230 --> 00:31:00,320
you know that made it uh known enough

884
00:31:03,029 --> 00:31:02,240
that these other witnesses were able to

885
00:31:06,070 --> 00:31:03,039
come forward

886
00:31:06,549 --> 00:31:06,080
so that's a big deal um you know today

887
00:31:09,909 --> 00:31:06,559
it's

888
00:31:11,990 --> 00:31:09,919
overload right you've got you know

889
00:31:13,750 --> 00:31:12,000
youtube and facebook and everything and

890
00:31:16,470 --> 00:31:13,760
somebody can have a siding they can film

891
00:31:18,470 --> 00:31:16,480
it and post it in 30 seconds and boom

892
00:31:19,990 --> 00:31:18,480
thousands hundreds of thousands millions

893
00:31:22,710 --> 00:31:20,000
of people within a short period

894
00:31:23,750 --> 00:31:22,720
period of time can see it so um it's

895
00:31:25,830 --> 00:31:23,760
it's kind of

896
00:31:27,590 --> 00:31:25,840
almost overwhelming now but back then

897
00:31:29,430 --> 00:31:27,600
you know to finally gather and assemble

898
00:31:30,549 --> 00:31:29,440
those 16 witnesses and get them

899
00:31:32,070 --> 00:31:30,559
interviewed and stuff

900
00:31:33,669 --> 00:31:32,080
it probably took months or a year or

901
00:31:35,509 --> 00:31:33,679
something i don't know but

902
00:31:37,269 --> 00:31:35,519
uh it's a little bit different today but

903
00:31:39,590 --> 00:31:37,279
still fascinating and they

904
00:31:41,269 --> 00:31:39,600
they really did to do good work back

905
00:31:43,590 --> 00:31:41,279
then i mean the air force

906
00:31:45,029 --> 00:31:43,600
there was a good investigation in in the

907
00:31:47,190 --> 00:31:45,039
media as well

908
00:31:49,430 --> 00:31:47,200
and you know because of that we we've

909
00:31:51,110 --> 00:31:49,440
got this story today and we've got a lot

910
00:31:53,750 --> 00:31:51,120
of information available to us

911
00:31:54,149 --> 00:31:53,760
right yeah it's an extremely valuable

912
00:32:03,509 --> 00:31:54,159
case

913
00:32:06,070 --> 00:32:03,519
among the best actually

914
00:32:07,909 --> 00:32:06,080
and i love it is the origin of that

915
00:32:10,710 --> 00:32:07,919
wonderfully mysterious

916
00:32:11,029 --> 00:32:10,720
fun term flying saucer and it really did

917
00:32:14,630 --> 00:32:11,039
kick

918
00:32:15,830 --> 00:32:14,640
off the modern ufo mystery and the human

919
00:32:17,750 --> 00:32:15,840
reaction to it

920
00:32:19,190 --> 00:32:17,760
that's right absolutely i mean those

921
00:32:22,710 --> 00:32:19,200
those two elements alone

922
00:32:26,149 --> 00:32:22,720
make this a hugely important case um

923
00:32:26,950 --> 00:32:26,159
you know for coming from your viewpoint

924
00:32:30,310 --> 00:32:26,960
you know as

925
00:32:32,549 --> 00:32:30,320
a field investigator it's got so many

926
00:32:35,750 --> 00:32:32,559
great things to look at here

927
00:32:37,990 --> 00:32:35,760
with all this witness testimony and

928
00:32:39,430 --> 00:32:38,000
the credibility of arnold himself and

929
00:32:41,350 --> 00:32:39,440
the calculations

930
00:32:43,509 --> 00:32:41,360
he was able to make based on his

931
00:32:45,990 --> 00:32:43,519
training and experience

932
00:32:46,870 --> 00:32:46,000
so much there but yeah going back to

933
00:32:50,630 --> 00:32:46,880
origins of

934
00:32:54,149 --> 00:32:53,669
this case is just it will always be a

935
00:32:57,350 --> 00:32:54,159
very

936
00:33:00,389 --> 00:32:57,360
important part of ufo history yeah

937
00:33:01,830 --> 00:33:00,399
well said well that concludes our

938
00:33:05,509 --> 00:33:01,840
discussion of the

939
00:33:07,669 --> 00:33:05,519
old-fashioned ufo case of the 1947

940
00:33:10,470 --> 00:33:07,679
kenneth arnold sighting

941
00:33:13,509 --> 00:33:10,480
now next time on old-fashioned ufos we

942
00:33:16,070 --> 00:33:13,519
will be discussing a little-known case

943
00:33:17,750 --> 00:33:16,080
and one that occurred a few days after

944
00:33:20,470 --> 00:33:17,760
the arnold sighting

945
00:33:22,070 --> 00:33:20,480
right here in our own backyard in cape

946
00:33:24,950 --> 00:33:22,080
keep creek arizona

947
00:33:25,909 --> 00:33:24,960
i'm stoked about this one so join us

948
00:33:28,710 --> 00:33:25,919
with your favorite

949
00:33:29,990 --> 00:33:28,720
beverage and hear about the william

950
00:33:32,230 --> 00:33:30,000
rhodes case

951
00:33:34,149 --> 00:33:32,240
which even has pictures pictures that

952
00:33:37,029 --> 00:33:34,159
made it in the newspaper

953
00:33:37,990 --> 00:33:37,039
and they have never been debunked so

954
00:33:41,269 --> 00:33:38,000
google it

955
00:33:42,230 --> 00:33:41,279
friends well that's it next time we'll